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Hosted by Mike Russell

Adobe Audition Podcast – Phillip Chryssikos

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Hi I'm Mike Russell from Music Radio Creative. And welcome to the Adobe Audition podcast. I'm interviewing power users of this awesome audio editing software. We'll reminisce back to the Cool Edit Pro days through to the introduction of multi-track editing and bring you right up to date with Adobe Audition CC and features like the essential sound panel. To get the full transcript and episode back catalogue, head over to MRC dot fm slash a a p Thad's MRC dot fm slash a a p. My guest on this show is Philip Chryssikos. He's a highly regarded and award winning multimedia journalist content editor and music presenter. He's had twenty five years experience spanning the BBC commercial radio and online outlets as well. You may have heard his voice on many different commercials and promos for companies such as Citizen watches Tesla Motors bmw nokia and so on. He's also heard as a news anchor on many radio stations in the UK so the likelihood is at some point if you switched on the radio and listen to the news you may have heard him on LBC Classic FM Smooth Radio Hard's gold in the UK and of course Phillip was formerly a news anchor back in the day as a deejay on Capitol FM in London. Without a doubt my favorite station I grew up on ninety five point eight. So excited to have Philip on the show. Phillip welcome to the Adobe Audition podcast.

Thank you. Thank you very much indeed.

So let's get started let's get straight in and find out today here in 2018. How are you using Adobe Audition.

I'm using Adobe Audition in two ways one on the basic way of using it as as audio edits an audio recorder and creating audio up. But what I found most helpful and I stumbled across this is using it as a video editor for sound as well I'm using the latest version 2018 and in the past Adobe many people see it as just being an audio editor or an audio recorder. Now I came across by having to make a video and I was told by a client here's the video. Firstly can you dub your voice over this. Not now. I can't do this said their clients. I can't do this. I can't I can't. Darb can tell me the timings I can do this fee. And they said Philip not their friend. This is what you need to do. And they showed me the powers of using Adobe Audition to play a video with this soundtrack and then being able to watch that video as you record your sound as well and then being able to then take that sounds and edit say it and move it around on the timeline to make it match up to a video as well and latterly of making a few commercials and promos where the video itself has been in Korean and I've been given the English script and said right there we are voice that's by the way here's the sound effects. Here's the clean audio bed. Here's the clean sound effect beds. There's the pictures go and it. So I've been making them using Adobe Audition and the video feature being up Tortue on the screen matching it all up mixing it all down and then going to premiere pro and then just bouncing it together so making the whole sound file with effects and everything making sure it's lined up. The video picture in a debut edition and simply impress me pro putting on one track the video and the next track my completed bounced audio file. So it was amusing on both ends. As both a voiceover And also as a video editor as well.

Fantastic and I think that's the best thing about åsa isn't it. When you have not just Adobe Audition but the creative cloud he really can hop between the software like you say you can be recording to the motion picture inside audition that you can then hop over pull them straight into premie approach using Dynamic link or even now editing premier pro project straight inside audition and the cross pollination even like I know you were mentioning to me before that you do some noise cleanup from time to time and the photoshop style tools there in the spectral display are just amazing but I really want to get into your favorite features and we will do throughout this show. But let's start with some of the production advice you've received over the years. PHILLIPS So you have been working in not just in radio but in Orio for a number of decades now I know I don't want to age you too much as say many many days but you have a wealth of experience. So what is the best audio production advice you've ever received.

Really on the advice I've I fell into this in terms of editing and voicing and producing and presenting your wants to do it. But I wasn't really too sure and my time comes and I'll age myself here. My career began in radio when it just started being digital so computers with hard disk some being able to record audio into them and edit them digitally and then a year or so later. Two years later I then moved into the analog world of editing on tape and China graphs if people may remember that or not probably not and then going back to digital. So really I spent all my Korea watching listening and absorbing everything inside and maybe asking why this why that and really what I've learned from it's all and from what I was told originally is to keep everything as best as it can be from the source as clean as it can be from the source. And then you can do whatever. Now this whatever was 20 odd years ago before we have a debut edition CC and Kyle 2018 wish it can it can do whatever you like to infinity

Exactly. Yeah. No I could not agree more so yeah getting the equipment right. Getting the audio sounding good a source is important and obviously listening to your audio quality on this show. You want someone who appreciates good equipment. So I can't wait to to ask you maybe about some of the kit that you favor and some of the the audio gear you're using. But let's look at let's get a broad overview Philip for those listening now of your life working in audio so looks to the past and look to the future. Let's start with the past and give me an example of something really challenging that you've worked on in order

But the most challenging working on ordeal would have been in the days of tape when you had the sound file on tape and all it was was a strip of brown tape. You had no idea where the arms are as well I think and then trying to edit that out you had no idea on those words you had to play them through the tape and mix them backwards and forwards on the reels find the exact point which was still a brown piece of tape or marking it with a China graph pencil making those edits and having strings of tape around your neck hoping that you'd remember that was the Yamana and that was this and that was that part of the sentence because you couldn't write on it it was so tiny and and trying to stitch it all together. Whereas with the digital world you can see exactly where the monarch may be and it's and it's non-destructive. This was destructive editing. That's my earliest memories. And the challenges faced and really to take an ominous route would either be a risk because you could destruct this tape and you wouldn't know whether we're with this tiny half an inch piece of tape would be if you wants to put it back and it would be impossible. Whereas now because everything is nondestructive my daily role of editing Ordi or whether it's my own or from a news anchor point of view and having a 30 second piece of order you need to get down to 17 seconds for the news and then the arming it's taking. Well I believe at the beginning of is so simple I could I could do it in a maybe 20 20 seconds and you can actually read you learn to read which is another strange thing you learn to read the waveform and you can almost say where the arms would be not because they're tiny but it may be because it's an arm and are with a word and you can join those two words together if you really zoom in which she kind of Dondi as a guy with with tape

Exactly. Digital Audio Workstation definitely changed the game. I like that I was just visualizing you with reels and reels of you know brown tape and then some of it falling on the floor and you're like oh I needed that piece and trying to tape it back in. So did you. You mentioned how easy it is particularly as a news journalist to be able to you know I need to get it down to 17 seconds. It needs to be exactly that to fit into the bulletin which for those listening that don't know news bulletins generally they have to be exactly two minutes exactly one minute exactly three minutes. Do I understand that correctly.

Yeah absolutely. And they're the toughest and with everything you know people don't really you don't go to a school and people teach you that the tricks of it really you find your own tricks around how to make you know bullets in two minutes from me. For example if I'm going to read a one minute bulletin I know I can I can write to with the audio 1 0 7 1 13 but my trick on that is always keep audio in the bulletin because number one the audience whatever it may be is your colour and and it will give something it'll bring it to life. So my secret always says all that is don't over tighten the audio edits in order that you may have unless a news bulletin keep it loose a little bit as it is. Because should you run over and you could be you know one minute one woman it's who you need to be one minute you can go back into that order and just tighten it ever so slightly and it will give you that time you need for a time bullets and if you've already tightened it for pre time bullets then you've got no leeway whatsoever. However if armed during the live bullets in AZ for example as I do on LBC then I will tighten those audiocassettes because to me if you're going to be reading something which is tight and Pacey or at least you want a flow because you're flowing you're your speech.

The last thing you want is to play an audiocassettes of 13 seconds 17 seconds with arms are as long pauses when it just instantly kills your pace and flow. For example if you're listening to President Trump Theresa May there in the Commons that giving a speech there will always be long pauses and what they're saying because they're doing it for effect. And when you put that to visuals on the TV it's straight ahead you're just seeing things and you're listening to things and it happens. However if you then introduce those exact same pauses to an audio bulletin on the radio it kills your whole pace and flow and you can take them out because you don't need. You need some space in there in the audio clip not to take it out completely. You can certainly tighten it so it moves the story on and it moves you on and it keeps you on pace with what they're saying and what they're saying with what you're saying and the whole thing just flows

That's fantastic. Well great tip and I didn't even know that that was something that you did. So anyone who's listening to a news bulletin now is going to essentially hear an edited version of. Well because like a President Trump or Theresa May. Without the gaps in between. That is such such a cool thing

Well with that said I I tend to listen to what my my colleagues do or my peers and I've taken over clips they may have left the mayor or something or I've heard what they've run. And when you listen to it on the radio it may not seem as obvious but if you're listening if you look at that waveform and you see it and you think well what I'm going to waste half a second here in that clip and point three of a second there in a second there when I can tighten all this up and save time overall because if you're on radio if you're selling something in a commercial. Every point one of a second. And they will add up means something it's time that either someone's paid for or time that you could get back to something quicker in that radio show or in that song and it comes back to being really superfluous words. Why start an ordeal with. I think you know if I say now and Mike Ross let music radio creative says Adobe Audition is the best thing ever. We'll have them play a clip of you saying Well I think well obviously you think because I've just said you're gonna tell me that. So that's just wasted words and an audio clips cut them out.

That's ProLiant I love some real kind of ninja editing tips. So let's let's look at obviously over the years you have worked on a heck of a lot. You've done some great high profile voiceovers. You've worked with some of the biggest media organizations in the UK but there must be something really cool Philip that you have your eyes set on that you'd like to get achieved in the future. Maybe a cool project you haven't even told anyone about yet what would that be for you.

This is a really tough one because I set myself high bars on everything I do. And for example as I spoke of earlier about doing the video voiceovers but doing it all myself and not giving it out to a production company or someone who could do this. I think the one cool thing I'd like to work on is that one cool thing I don't know what it is yet because

Oh

When it comes along I'll look at it and think I can't do this. And I'll think a bit more about I think you can for it. Now you can you can. And the one cool thing I'd work on is a challenge. I haven't even considered yet because I don't know what it is. And I think especially in the world of the internets and tutorials online whether it's text or video based you can achieve anything.

Absolutely yeah. The the world really is Royse strong line. It's amazing how the world has become such a small place with the fact that we're all connected and we're able to work with anyone anywhere and send Oteo around the world. So yeah I mean just like you were mentioning earlier is it's easy to edit inside a digital audio workstation as opposed to splicing tape. And now is easier than ever rather than having to send out CDs and tapes to you know just ways and end P3 or you file to someone on the other side of the world using you know e-mail or Dropbox or Google Drive.

Well one thing I do find which is very important is you know we've all sense e-mail files to clients or all left them you know went on Dropbox but one thing I do love which is my favorite is we transfer because you do get an e-mail saying yes it's been sent. So that's peace of mind for you. But you also get the all important it's being downloaded. And if you're perhaps sending a demo to somebody or you're sending somebody your voice real is amazing and so important to know that somebody has downloaded it. Because to me they then taken part in another chain in communication in nonverbal communication. I always find is instead of bombarding people and this is not just now I found it years ago when I was looking for new work in the radio industry and I thought this was in the days of CDs and sending out CDs and things in the post instead of going through a list of people and finding that their names and Mike Russell here's their address and sending it to them and that sounds personal as opposed to Dear Sir Madam and I'm wasting my time burning CDs and writing these personal letters and wasting time on stationery and postage and waiting. What I did was email this person to say hey this is me. This is where I'd like to know I'd like to work for you. And then if they came back to me and said to me yes please send your demo along. Then I would then be sending a demo along in the post. I would have spent my money fine but because they'd asked me if they never replied to my letter or got back in contact on email after maybe 10 days or so I would get in contact with them because look I've opened this chain of communication invited me to send it to you I haven't sent it to you unsolicited.

So now you play the next part of the game. And what do you think of the demo. If you love it great get me and if you don't find tell me and that's fine. And the important thing with we transfer now takes it to the digital stage where a client can say to yes please send me your demo send it via somewhere like we transfer which you can then see if they've downloaded it and if they have the same way they haven't got back in contact with you after well in this digital age. After a couple of days which is probably ten days old money then get in contact with them. And also if you do actually send jobs to clients that they've paid for. I had one many years ago maybe three four years ago now where I did the job. I sent it to them via we transfer funds to hable OK and they said yeah actually we've decided to go with somebody else when I'm not going to pay a fine. But I said because you've downloaded it. You having taken this to use I don't know if you have used or not used it but you've told me you already changed your mind before I'd sent the audio but without telling me. So why did you bother downloading it. Because you have downloaded it and I have proof of that. Then it's only fair that you pay me. And luckily I saw the value in the arguments and they did. So it is a good receipt based system.

Definitely it is and you are so right that you can. I didn't know that about we transfer so that's a good benefit. And sometimes I mean even you can get. I think it's the software for e-mail programs to give read receipts on those that would be a good thing.

And the nice thing about transfers sorry Mike is that you can also think about 100 euros a year. You can sign up to your own personal transfers so you can put your own photograph on your own background banner. You can customize it. It looks even more professional than just doing it via the standard way transfer say to a client as we all know. So anyone what you project is is importance. You know you wouldn't Odden I wouldn't go down to the petrol station to buy a newspaper and topless in your pajamas and slippers but you would put something on. And it's the same way with transfer why would you send a clientèle to anyone something like Vajra a freeway transfer when you will still get the receipts back and it looks unprofessional when you can just spend 100 euros a year. Set it all up so it looks professional with your photos and everything else. And they got the banners there. So this is this is me and you still got those receipts back. But the added bonus as well as looking professional and plus having those files you've sent stored on line in their own cloud system for a month or so

I wish I had listened to or heard your advice of opening a dialogue with people before sending out a CD. Back in the day I can't even imagine how much money and time I've spent on first class stamps and CDs or cassette tapes and Jiffy Jiffy envelopes to send stuff out but this is like we transfer that's the modern way of doing that so really cool tip. Let's go back now Philip to your childhood and look at the first memory maybe that one memory that you have around Orio that made you smile it kind of maybe started you down this path. What would it be for you.

I think it would be listening to television commercials or radio commercials 30 odd years ago now which is a different it's a different world it's a different era. It's the equivalent of comparing it to the Stone Age it's that so far away where products weren't rammed in your face and down your throat and in your mind as they are now and only because they are now because we have a very short limited attention span no matter what age we are and what generation we are. But the commercials and audience had time to breathe. It was look how lovely this is this is what you can do with that. And let's take this whole 30 seconds to tell you and even at the end of 30 seconds we'll tally and the commercials back then were very sing along music based. They were what we call now Sonic's within tells ding ding ding ding three seconds are McDonald's. I'm loving it three seconds. In those days you could have the whole 30 seconds which was their commercial and the audio Idée. So it was really going up with sing along songs or or hooks that really held you in for the entire 30 seconds. And that's where we might my my childhood memory that got me into it through to audio in radio where it was a completely different beast. And just everything was huge.

Aids. Yeah that's right. Fantastic. So OK. We've had a really good look so far. Some of the challenging projects you work with the cool stuff in the future you'd like to work on some some demo sending tips for the for the modern age. In the past it was just opening a dialogue with an initial letter. Now using a service like we transfer so I'm really curious now for them to get stuck into the software that is Adobe Audition that obviously has this year celebrates its 25th birthday. And I'd like to start off with narrowing down the features and the plethora of features available in that audio editing software. If you had to pick just one and call it your favorite feature what would that be.

This is an easy one to think. I can't believe how long ago Adobe Audition started or really. That's correct Sarcelles I'm sorry. Audition back in the day when it was just you know auditions it 15 years or so since version three point one came out since heaven knows what version this is now some like seven say you know 16 or something. But the most valuable one because perhaps we take it for granted. Perhaps it should be there but the standard thing of editing and non-destructive editing is so important and it's standard. The most important feature for me is Skip selection. Now this was

Oh

In the early auditions where Mike you could highlights a piece of audio. You could press that button because that's the piece of Orillia you highlighted is the one you fancy taking out of the audio piece you've got to press a button. It would play five seconds one second whatever pre-determined it and it would skip over that section and you go right. That's the bit I want to take out. Yes it works. Brilliant wasn't my great editing. No let's just focus in a bit more with the arrow keys and make even tighter and zoom into the waveform that is the most important feature for me because when I almost went to 5.5 aboard the Ocean which seems many years ago now for some reason Adobe when they took over took that skip selection outs and it was only when one of my friends in the industry was talking to them about our adobes lost and now lost I Feygin almost and no Nona is back in there. That's when I decided to upgrade. And it was a hallelujah moment. And it is so important because I did try version 5.5 without it and it was so time consuming. I spoke about reading the waveform you can read the waveform to a certain extent. But when you have to take a piece of audio out play it back and go No it doesn't work is it. Can you do this by sight without even looking because it controls that and you put it back in and you try again take it out try again Tiger and it may take you six seven times that skips selection is so important to be able to find Chuen play it back and get it. That's the one now I the late

Yeah absolutely. Gosh skips the election. That's not something that I use regularly in my work flows on a daily basis. But now you mention it particularly if you're editing tons of audio and pulling stuff out of clips. I can see why that would be super valuable. So what about obviously particularly in your role as a journalist a time as you mentioned is of the essence you are always working towards that next bulletin which is usually on the hour and that bulletin has to be exactly one minute or two minutes inauguration. So what are your amazing workflows all for you time saving shortcuts that you have to really rifle through audio inside Adobe Audition.

Well first and foremost when you're using Adobe Audition are I would start firstly with the slab of Oreo. There it is. And and I would work through the easiest thing that is listen to the beginning obviously and take out those beliefs and if it's not there whatever. Here's the important thing is the Faden just that tiny bit at the beginning fade in and the end. The fadeout more often than not if you are taking a clip you have to edit the audio and end somewhere where they may go talking about something else or maybe midway through a word which is rolling into another. But there's no excuse. With digital editing and with Adobe that you can put a clip to where the ends abruptly or harshly because there's always a way you can just fade out that very slight bit because it sounds smooth coming in and it sounds smooth coming out. Because if it catches you out abruptly it sounds awful and then I will go through and and listen to it inside the arms and arms of the eyes or even try and take a section out which might be four or five seconds and I'll link one piece of the audio to the next. And you would never know but only because using that zoom in function getting close to the waveform taking that out and if it still doesn't work we've all had that bit which just goes ever so slightly zooming even further and then read the waveform line. So if you can see it's dipping on the bit where your in markings it is going up. On your outline the move you outlined to be on a dip as well or your inline markets or be on a blind set. But they both go in and out on an up or in and out on a down and that will always go away. Get get rid of those those slight little clicks.

I like that. That's really cool especially when when you mentioned you the the abruptness or the clicks you can get at the start or end of short like vocals that you'll use in Bulletin's. Just to add the fade on the stand the end is brilliant. And like you mentioned in audition where you were multi-track all waveform using those gray triangles at either end you can just instantly add a waveform or Syria fade on. So definitely really really good stuff. So Philip I know you mentioned at the start of this show you are very much all about getting the audio sounding good a source getting using the right equipment to make things sound good. So let's talk about your order your resources your gear you use when creating audio I know you use a lot of different mikes and setups different radio stations but do you have any audio equipment in particular that you really love.

Yes. The one that I really love is my microphone and before we even come onto the microphone I mentioned earlier about having the cleanest source of anything and the cleanest source of anything has to start with the studio or the booth. My studio that I'm talking to from now on it would be nothing without the microphone the microphone nothing without the studio is constructed in a five and a half six inch frame which is then filled with acoustic insulation acoustic sound insulation which if people are building their own sound booth. So having people do it for them acoustic sound installation has completely different properties to loft insulation it may look the same may feel the same but the properties of it's entrapping the sound and absorbing it is completely different. So in that's five and a half six inch frame I've got about four inches of acoustic material in there then wraps around with acoustic fabric on all the walls and the ceiling and the door most importantly at an angle because as we know with studios if there's glass in there the glass will always be at an angle the door or something they should be angles in the air to be able to reflect the audio differently as well so it's not all just bouncing around itself. First and foremost the most important and carpets on the floor. Acoustically treated ceiling as well like the walls. And then we come to the microphone and this is my favorite piece of kids the sun Chronixx Orpheus microphone some tonics is is a fabulous British company run by a guy called Trevor Coeli who's had so many years experience working in sound studios including Abbey Road as well.

And these microphones have been tested. They've been hand designed by him both in physicality and the internals of them and tried in studios around the world including Abbey Road for musicians for voice overs for singers. And as as a shirt as a blouses a dress his trousers his jeans. Each one is different. So this microphone is stunning for me. I think I've tried all the ones I've tried tried the roads enti ones and I thought they were amazing until I tried this. I've tried other microphones than humans and humans and this one is the one for me and I remember saying to Trevor when I when I first got this it was the equivalent of having silky smooth chocolate just melting in your ears as you heard it. And we all know when you go to do a voiceover No matter how amazing you may sound on the end result whether there's work done to you or not. If when you are reading that script it doesn't sound amazing in your ears and your mind in the headphones and back to you every other way you're going to be reading you're going to doubt yourself. But this one just made me sound so silky smooth that it is my most important piece of equipment in the studio is on Tronox Orpheus microphone

Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. Getting the microphone. As you just mentioned that fits your voice is so important. Sophie euphony you mentioned the sun. Orpheus just been checking that out and I see it's multi passing condenser and Mike has got three different polar patterns that you can select from and as attendee b plus or minus cut or boost so depending on what kind of gain you've got going into your audio interface or into your mixing board you can you can adjust for that. So definitely looks like something is looking it's made in Britain which is super cool too so. Excellent excellent stuff. Well I think it's been a wealth of resources here in this show and I'm really excited that we kind of we've covered some ground that we haven't covered so far on this show so thank you for the time to to go over this. I'm really curious now for anyone who's listening to the show who's may be aspiring to get into the industry maybe they're young and they're looking at audio as something they want to do. What would be your advice to that person starting now.

The obvious one would be to you know listen around what's happening and get as much experience as you can but I think anyone aspiring to get into any industry whether it's ours or anything else is to look at things that people aren't doing. Otherwise you're just chasing the herd. So for mine for an aspiring young or the producer to get into the industry is don't look at other people are doing. But look look at what's gone before. People now are producing already. I believe which sounds stunningly amazing on an Alexa's speaker or on a mano speaker or some cheap headphones that you save from going around wearing these big over the headphones. They think they sound absolutely amazing when in actual fact my little Sony ear buds sound better than that because they don't look good when they go to buy them nobody does. But I don't look at the back of the pack and look at the frequency response and go the lower or the frequency the lower the base the better and the higher the frequency the response the more clarity you can hear from it's get the widest when you can. And it's the same way with an aspiring audio producer. Look back at what has happened. Look at those look at those big imaging that used to be for example on ninety five point eight Capital FM where every single note whiz bang and voiceover said something that the audio had space to breathe. You heard every cimbalom bass and why. Because it was played on stereo speakers. People had stereo speakers or monitors in their studios because they were going to be heard in stereo setups in cars and stereo setups at home everything was stereo. We went from having a mono transistor in the 60s and 70s to Dario.

But now it's gone the other way around where everything is being cut down. So it sounds amazing on the lexus speaker. It sounds stunning on a little tinny or even stereo speakers on a mobile phone which aren't really stereo speakers. They got no space to breathe. So look at waveforms don't make Cordier which is highly compressed and just looks like a green bar treats every piece of audio elements as an individual pace let it breathe let it come out and hit you on the speakers and listen to things not just on headphones but on stereo monitors speakers. And don't be afraid to put some stereo within your sounds or something it's come a bit more from the left speak than the right it'll still sound as normal as everyone else when you play on a Lexus speaker but boy you play on something important on a nice stereo system than it will really blow your mind off from one thing that will be coming in is already but it's just you know teetering in the water there is is is high definition audio and it's not like what we know is of stereo. It really will blow your mind a bit says as we know Mike because probably if you listen to his songs from the 60s and 70s or the Beatles and stuff and you listen to those prop up stereo separations on a stereo system and it blows your mind. Why. Because we've forgotten what they sounded like. So so aspiring producer and audio producers listened to the sounds of the past and recreate those to have that wow factor when you listen to them.

I couldn't agree more. That's fantastic and it is funny how you just gave me a bit of a history there how it's come from you know the 60s and 70s with the transistors and being in mono. Then we got Steria wasn't that cool. And now we kind of almost like you mention with a lexer and and Google home and everything else. We're kind of going back to my notes because can. But then there is so much hope and I think that's a great place to leave it. Well you mentioned the prospects of high definition audio and even I guess spatial audio with things like the Halo lens and other mixed reality and virtual reality spaces that will soon be a whole new reality where we'll be hearing sounds coming from the back of our head and spinning around and looking at them so it's yeah it's an interesting place we're going. But I definitely really really can resonate with the advice of listening to audio from the past and getting some some inspiration from from there. Ninety five point eight capital fm as I've mentioned before on the show is one of my biggest if not the biggest inspiration for me. So it's been enlightening and thank you for taking the time to to speak on the show and just for anyone now who would like to find you online and find out a bit more about Phillip Chris because why would he send them.

I was on my Web site cities Philipe Chris acost that's Philipe with one L and Chris Ecoles C H R Y S S I.K. s Philip Chris acost dot com and to show the changing times in the industry and the whole world there were no W WW dots at the beginning.

Wow cool drop the W's. That's that's the way to go. Definitely. Obviously seen to make sure you as well

Absolutely is

Good offer. I really appreciate it. Thank you for your time today and thanks for coming on the show.

Thank you might been a pleasure.

That concludes this episode. Kate subscribe and review this podcast to help others discover the power of Adobe Audition if you'd like a full transcript of the show. Head over to MLSE dot fm slash. AP thanks for listening.

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