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Adobe Audition Podcast

Hosted by Mike Russell

Adobe Audition Podcast – John Lee Dumas

Hey I'm Mike Russell from music radio creative. And welcome to the Adobe Audition podcast honoring 25 years of Adobe Audition in this series of twenty five episodes. I will interview power users of this awesome audio editing software we'll reminisce back to the Cool Edit Pro days through to the introduction of multi-track editing and bring you right up to date with Adobe Audition CC and features like the Essential Sound panel. The show is brought to you by the awesome audio gear giveaway if you'd like the chance to win my perfect audio creator studio setup. Head over to MRC dot fm slash win and enter now. There'll be many prize draws every month with a final gear giveaway taking place at the end of September. That's MRC dot fm slash W I N for a chance to win. Good luck.

My guest today is John Lee Dumas. He is the host of Entrepeneurs On Fire. That's an award winning podcast where he interviews inspiring entrepreneurs every Monday and also drops value bombs every Thursday he's got over 2000 episodes under his belt. In fact towards the start of this year he finalized two thousand daily episodes of that podcast with one point three million listeners every month and seven figures of annual revenue JLD is just getting started. In fact just recently you can now access The Daily Refresh on your Amazon Alexa which is fantastic. I'm delighted to introduce John to the show. And remember you can visit EOFire dot com to set your entrepreneurial journey ready for it… on fire! John, welcome to the show

Mike I am so fired up to be here. And what's pretty cool is that I was actually just recording The Daily Refresh right before this call so I'm definitely in the zone. Definitely excited to share some Adobe Audition knowledge.

Nice. So let's get into it then. So you're recording The Daily Refresh. That's obviously a podcast and available on Amazon Alexa. Give me a broad overview of how you're using Adobe Audition.

So I use Adobe Audition for everything you mention I just crossed 2000 episodes I've recorded and edited every single episode of Entrepeneurs On Fire within Adobe Audition so I record directly into Adobe Audition. I use Skype for most of my interviews and the person pipes right in to track number two of Adobe Audition I of course am track number one and I record the episodes are right there and then after the episode is done I edit write an Audition export the MP3 and then I'm off to the races with the rest of my production and… I'm doing the exact same thing for The Daily Refresh you know The Daily Refresh is a under 3 minutes daily episode and of course. Also as you mentioned an Alexa flash briefing where I share a quote to inspire the mind, gratitude to warm the soul and guided breathing to energize the body and I'm working on getting 90 of those recorded today if you can believe it.

Wow. 90 in one batch. That's amazing. Wow. So you mentioned over 2000 episodes of Entrepeneurs On Fire under your belt. Plus you know daily well The Daily Refresh daily but recording batches and batches and editing yourself so no outsourcing you love it that much?

Hey did Beethoven ask somebody else to practice that piano for him?

Very true. I like that. So let's talk about. You've been doing this for a long time now and you must have received loads of different bits of advice let me know what you think is probably some of the best audio production or podcast production advice that you've ever received?

Well I'm going to be paraphrasing it a little bit and the person that can maybe even say it a little bit better is actually on the mic today because the advice came from you Mike and that was don't try to fix your audio only in post-production that can help but the best thing to do is record it to the best and highest quality at the source. From the beginning and I've always practiced that.

Wow. And so tell me. Tell me a little bit more about what it is that you have done to practice that particular piece of advice. Is it like equipment or the way you got things set up. Tell me tell me a little bit about what you're doing that make your idea the best it can be?

So I see a lot of people in the forums in the communities talking about the different ways they get rid of the hiss in post production like using adaptive noise reductor and then for you know different great effects opportunities that Adobe Audition had. Which I definitely utilize and I love. But whenever there's something going wrong with my audio I always like to go back to the source and say well there's hissing. How can actually get rid of the hissing before I record so that I'm not having to then take it out afterwards because you're always doing something to the audio. That's not going to make it as clean as crisp as possible so I just try to be as much of a purist as possible I'm using a FireStudio mixer from the very beginning. And that just allows me to use the XLR Heil PR 40 to great effect. And then again I pipe it right into my Skype via the firewire so it goes straight from my Skype boom into my Adobe Audition and I try to cut out any middlemen that there are so that I can just have the highest quality at the very beginning. So then again when I need to use the effects at the end to make things sound better and to do this and that I do but I'm always then trying to go back to the source afterwards I identify what was the reason for those things so that I can adjust at the beginning and do as little post-production as possible.

Obviously from your and you know you've got some really great audio equipment there you got some great microphones that you're using and some great editing techniques but surely with over 2000 episodes and editing more on a daily basis you must have had some real challenges some challenging projects that you've come across and perhaps maybe even that's related to because you've interviewed so many different entrepreneurs in so many different situations. Some of them have access to good quality equipment some of them probably don't. Can you give us an example of maybe one of the most challenging whether it was a whole day of editing or one particular project you were working on. That was really really challenging for you what was it and maybe a little bit about how you overcame that challenge?

Well we already talked about Entrepreneurs On Fire and how I have over 2000 episodes of that and then The Daily Refresh which you know I think as of today I'm like on episode 23 or 24 and of course it's a daily show that just is pretty quickly getting into the hundreds and then you know before you know that I'll be into the thousands. So I'm really big into podcasting so this might not surprise you when I say that I actually have another podcast which is called Memoir audio biographies of the men and women who changed the world. And over Christmas break I was here in Puerto Rico. Kate was back in San Diego. I was actually home. I was here at my home for the holidays by myself. So let's say I had a lot of free time and I said you know what let's do a project that I've been wanting to do for a little while it's going to take a ton of time a ton of effort. And that was to create my first Memoir episode about Alexander the Great. And I did you know hundreds of hours of research I mean I read books I watch movies I went through countless Wikipedia articles and sources and I came up with this massive script and then I went out and I found different voiceover actors to play the different characters throughout Alexander the Great's life. And then I went out into places like AudioJungle to like pull in different sound effects that I wanted to use for the different battle scenes etc. and it was just a full audio production. And I mean I actually posted I think you might have seen this some point might but I post on Facebook. What the actual Adobe Audition .sesx file looked like after I was done with it it was two plus hours of audio with about a million splices slices additions. You name it. It was there and there were just hundreds of man hours blood sweat and audio tears into that project I actually ended up breaking up that 2 hour episode into a four part series I released it as a podcast called Memoir and it was just it felt like I was birthing an actual podcast like that's how much work I went into this and it was such a great experience and you know I'm actually currently working on Napoleon as we speak he's going to be up so a number 2 my featured Memoir number 2 and that's going to be a lot of fun. But I know what I'm getting into this time so I can be as shocked as surprise. But let me tell you that was an incredibly challenging project.

I can imagine. And yeah from the session that obviously I've seen that you posted your Adobe Audition session some of the cuts and edits and everything just to bring it all together. Like you say hours and hours of work really big respect to you because that's not your normal average podcast which is you know a top and tail intro outro maybe a couple of jingles in there and you know host guest this is like serious stuff. So yeah that's kind of like making an audiobook or an audio drama almost isn't something like that?

Definitly in audio drama. There's no doubt that's what it was.

Brilliant. So like you say I mean you have your main projects Entrepeneurs On Fire which I believe has been going now live since 2012. Am I right in saying that?

2012.

Wow. And The Daily Refresh which has now focused on Amazon Alexa Memoir. So you have a lot of cool things going on but when you do something what I see is you commit to it. So is there one cool project maybe you haven't told anyone about this yet that you would still like to work on?

Yeah there's one coming up actually I've written the outline of my upcoming book and that's called How To Finally Win it's a book that I've been working on for a while I'm actually holding off on publishing it because it's kind of conjoining with a super funnel that I'm working on so everything is ready and working it wants to really make the most of the opportunity at the launch etc. and I'm coming up with a really cool audiobook of How To Finally Win. You know not just reading the book from the page but really getting interactive kind of like I did with Memoir in some ways of bringing in different sound effects some potential different voiceover actors and just really making it an audio experience not just something that you're like OK I feel like somebody is reading a book out loud to me that's fine. I listen to those and I love those. But I just want How To Finally Win's audio book experience to be different so I'm working on that kind of behind the scenes coming up with some ideas of course now that I've let the cat out of the bag. I'd love any feedback you might have you thinking about you might think about in the future Mike if you want to hit me up you have some idea other people do some really cool things some examples. Always looking to learn from others.

And just to look at How To Finally Win. Is that is your most recent book?

Yes and I haven't published it yet so it's still behind the scenes. Got the splash page up right now. I have sent over an advance copy to Gary Vaynerchuk and he was kind enough to endorse this book so it's super cool that I have Gary Vaynerchuk's endorsement on the cover. Fired up about that and when the time is right sometime in 2018 that puppy is going to live.

Nice and obviously publishing. You're no stranger to publishing with The Freedom Journal and I believe The Mastery Journal under your belt too right?

That's correct. Both of those have been widely successful publishing ventures of mine The Freedom Journal became the sixth most funded publishing campaign of all time on Kickstarter. And The Mastery Journal was not far behind it and together they've actually combined to sell over a million dollars worth of journals which has been awesome.

So John you're a kind of multi media star because you have the blog you have really good blog posts you do a lot of video stuff a lot of stuff I see on Facebook Live from time to time. Obviously podcasting and audio seems to be your home or you know where you're at. So I guess that audio is not just something that has been with you through your adult life but it's been something that's been with you since you were a child maybe and I'm curious to know what would be that one memory from your childhood where perhaps you heard audio you heard something for the first time and maybe that was the start of you thinking Yeah this is this is something I want to do. I want to do something around audio. Obviously not podcasting because it probably didn't even exist when you were a child.

Are you saying that I'm old Mike? Is that what you're saying?

You're older than podcasting. Yeah that's quite a confession isn't it now!

So let's think here. Growing up in Maine there's not a ton to do in the winter it's cold it's dark it's snowy but one cool thing about being in Maine in the winter is that last part the snowy part especially if you have a place to ski and my family has always had this amazing ski on ski off condo at Sugarloaf USA which is the best ski resort in the entire state of Maine. Honestly probably all of New England. Like maybe number two. Worst case scenario. So it's a great ski resort. The other problem is it is a solid 3 hours door to door from my house in Maine to getting up to Sugarloaf because Maine's a huge state and it's just way out in the middle of nowhere. So the drive was something that nobody ever really looked forward to. Because you remember these are the days since we've already admitted that I'm old these are the days before iPad's and iPhones and like all the ways that all the kids can distract themselves now when they're stuck in a car for hours on end. And we had to get a little inventive and I can just never. I'll never forget that my favorite family cassette tape that we would pop in every drive to Sugarloaf was the movie. Good Morning Vietnam. Have you ever seen that movie Mike?

Yes. Yes, I love it.

What was so cool that for me was that you know it's a Robin Williams movie where he's a deejay in Vietnam and he's basically trying to cheer up the troops the U.S. troops who are obviously miserable and heating life in Vietnam because it's hot and it's dangerous and scary and all of the above. So the cassette just wasn't music back to back and you definitely had songs and the songs were amazing. But the cassette also told the story and it told the story that kind of connected to each song and it made sense. And by the end of you know side B because of course as cassettes you have side A had stopped turnover side B. But on side B was almost like you felt like you were listening to an audio book and you had just finished that book because it was taking you from story to story song to song along that progression and I just remember thinking man audio is cool because it just is a way that I can use my imagination. I can picture the scenes I can picture what is going on and it really brought things to life for me and ever since that moment like I really just admired audio for what it was.

That's a really cool story and I think that's reflected in your latest work in Memoir where you are literally creating a story. I mean yeah that's one of the things I'm working back in radio. You get told Time and time again radio is theatre of the mind but it's audio is theatre of the mind really isn't it? You create the sound effects you get the voice actors you create all of that for someone but they make their own pictures which is which is fantastic. So like excellent that's really really good gives us a great background on who you are and how you go into doing what you're doing. Obviously this podcast is in tribute to Adobe Audition 25th anniversary of the software can't believe it's been around for that long. So I'm really keen now to get into the ways that you are using Adobe Audition. Some of the workflows and bits like that in particular let's start. This is one of my favorite questions to ask what is if you had to pick just one thing in the software what would be your favorite feature in Adobe Audition?

Back to the interview in a moment but if you want to in my perfect audio creator setup. Head over to MRC dot fm slash win.

Well I can tell you I don't put myself near to your level and Adobe Audition but I definitely consider myself a top 1 percenter I definitely consider myself an expert like your top point one percent but I'm top 1 percent I mean I've used you know probably thousands of hours of Adobe Audition and I truly do love the software. And I say if I could just choose one there's probably a million. Well one thing that really blew me away was I walked in one day and I saw that Kate does have a podcast herself Kate's Take she was loading up Adobe Audition. She would go in and every single time she would just have like the standard you know whatever template was there and you have to recreate the wheel. She would go in and she would like adjust it around how she wanted she would you know turn up she would add these different effects you do all the things. I'm like what are you doing. She's like oh it's just what I have to do every time it's so annoying. I'm like you know you can save templates? She's like what?! So I taught her that one day how to save a template so every single time you open up Adobe Audition boom your setup is there waiting for you. It's at the exact even cursors exactly where you want it which is like for The Daily Refresh is actually important cuz I want my cursor at the 4 second mark when I load it up so that when I hit record it's there and I'm actually able to start at the 4 second mark I don't have to change that every single time and that's simply by saving a template as you can name your own name and then every time you load up Adobe Audition it will load that template for you. And to me it just feels like home when you open up Adobe Audition now if you spend the time to set up exactly how you want to set it up it makes it feel just like home.

I like that. That's really really good advice and yeah I don't think often the people do use that template feature as much as they could be like you describe. You can make a multi-track session exactly the way you want it to be to start where you need it to start with everything there for you like if you're doing a podcast intro outro there as well. And what's really cool. I guess you have this experience John is that you have a template you're using a lot it will default to the last template you were using right. So if you're working on a show consistently when you start it when you go in file new multitrack it will by default go to the last template is that something you're familiar with and you're using quite a lot?

That's what I'm using and ask what I love about it.

Awesome. So let's talk about some of the work flows and in particular I'm interested in timesaving short cuts. Hot keys. Any anything you've got on constant call. What is it that you use as an exciting workflow or timesaving shortcut inside Audition.

So there's a number we can definitely talk about a few of them so one of my favorites is just the short key that allows you to drop different colored flags you know there are different colored flags and they mean something specific and Adobe Audition. I actually just have them as like my own specific colored flags I know what the blue flag means to me. I know what the green flag means to me what the flag means to me because I've just personally identified those as certain things. For instance if somebody swears on my show I'm dropping a specific colored flag so I know to go back there and cut out their swear if somebody coughs or there's like some kind of background noise. I'm dropping a flag there of a different color so I know that that's what I'm looking for. And then if somebody you know says oh can I start that part over that I'm dropping another flag that says OK this person wanted to like say the last part over. So I'm just doing this as I'm going through the episode because let me take you to time before I did this I would just be like OK yeah. And I had to remember like around the 25 minute mark like there's an error of some kind there. Let's keep going. And then what would happen that had to end up going back and basically listening to the whole episode just to make sure that I wasn't missing some big mistake. But now all I need to do is finished the episode. Look at the two or three. You know worst case scenario are four or five flags that I drop throughout I only go right to those flags. I only edit those areas and I'm done. And I'm confident 100 percent that there is no other mistakes throughout the entire episode. And another time same thing that I do love is that you and I were talking about the other day Mike. You can actually select all in you can use a little time kind of shrinker to basically bring it from 100 percent down to like 75 or 50 percent which you will then you know take a 24 minutes episode to make it down to 12 minutes you bring it down to 50 percent and you can listen to it and fast speed so that if you do want to go through and just check it all you don't have to spend 24 minutes doing cut that time in half. That's another great timesaving hack that I have and then I just use the hotkeys everything I have keyboard shortcuts for everything like for splice. I have a certain letter on the keyboard it's M it just splices right there so I don't have to go into like the edit splice all tracks like that whole thing like it's just one I just select the keyframe I dragged the mouse I highlight it boom one key the letter M and it will splice all tracks and then if I want to jump in the multitrack you know I'm pushing M I mean in the waveform I'm pressing M. If I want to jump back in a multitrack I'm pushing B if I'm in the waveform just a single. I only have to just select an area and I press the V button and that will silence all. So if there is like some background noise for some reason I can just select all that portion of the track and just silence everything. Like if we talk to each other I could just silence one of the two of us that I just wanted to silence. So it doesn't sound like we're you know stepping on each other's toes etc. And so there's just so many keyboard shortcuts that I use basically for everything. That means I never have to be going into the edit or the file or the menu or anything I'm just doing everything with you know one hand on the mouse. One hand the keyboard and I'm going straight through editing that way.

That's the way you want to be. And over the thousands of episodes that you've edited yourself you've clearly worked out a really good and fast way. You really need to be fast don't you don't want to be doing things that are repetitive or you know easy to do on a hot key. Again and again if you can save time and I love some of those tips like dropping colored flags while you're recording or just dropping anything that places a marker in the audio while you're recording is a fantastic idea particularly for podcasters who are recording a show that's going to go out later. Like you say for instance the classic case yeah swearing you can just you can hit a key drop something in there and be confident that you're editing and I loved it when you mentioned to me about the time stretching in the multitrack what a cool way to get through an episode much quicker than you usually would. For instance obviously down in the in the playback controls you do have the fast forward and the rewind. But it tends to speed up and make you sound like a chipmunk as opposed to what you're doing. Where you're doing the realtime stretching and the is right and you actually get. What do you get the same kind of pitch of voice don't you but it's just going faster a lot faster so you can get through more content quickly so that is a brilliant tip. I'm sure podcast editors who don't already know about that will be super super grateful because that will save a lot of time and make the words intelligible. So you are really really cool stuff and hot keys definitely again brilliant. Now this is really exciting part for me because I get to geek out about the resources and some of the gear maybe you've got there in the… What do you call it? Is it the Fire Studio what do you call your…

EOFire Studios, baby.

Nice. So in the Fire Studio you've already given a hint that you've got a microphone from Heil and you got I think you said you've got a PreSonus bit of kit in there. But let's let's hear the JLD setup resources and gear that you're using that to make your audio sound good.

Yeah sure. So I have a PreSonus FireStudio Mixer that I've been using for quite a while now and I have a Heil PR 40 with a nice boom arm so that I can be standing up and it's just right there in my mouth with a nice little pop filter on it. I am using the Mac Pro like desktop computers. I'm using the Mac Pro with the big tower that gives me a lot of ram a lot of storage space so that I can really save those really big sesx files and those big wave files that come out of Adobe Audition for sure and I have a lot of microphones that I use. You know just because they're handy sometimes like I love the Blue Yeti when I'm doing webinars because I can just kind of have good audio while I'm not super close to it but I can kind of be flailing my arms around and not you know I can be on video and I feel like I have on my phone like right there in my face to sort of like that combo and whenever I travel I'm using the ATR 2100 microphone as it can just plug USB port into my laptop and I'm off to the races. I make sure that my guest on every one of my shows have at a minimum the Logitech Clear Chat. It's 30 bucks on Amazon. And my attitude is if you're not willing to invest 30 bucks in being a guest on my show then you don't deserve to be a guest on my show because my listeners fire nation deserve great audio. So that's a lot of the gear that I have. You know I try to keep it as simple as possible but something that you don't skimp on.

Wow. So let me just get this straight. If your guest that you're interviewing for your Entrepreneurs On Fire podcast does not have a good enough quality audio you basically make them buy a Logitech Clear Chat.

You have to. You have to send me an e-mail that says I either purchased a Logitech or I have a Logitech Clear Chat or better at my disposal. You have to e-mail that to me. And then there's been a few times when I've gotten on and someone's just been like Oh yeah yeah I thought I was going have it in time but I actually don't. And I'm like well I guess we're going to have to reschedule. So best of luck and then honestly I probably will not reschedule with them. So I will definitely not accept for less than stellar audio quality.

Definitely so what's less quality basically than Logitech. Are you getting people coming on with internal mics?

Exactly. Internal you know some people are using their ear buds which you know aren't the worst but it's just it's not what just a quick little simple upgrade can do. So yeah that's basically what I'm looking for just you know something that's going to make you sound good.

That's interesting. That's really interesting and actually a side question out of all the entrepreneurs that you've interviewed excluding those who have a podcast because they already appreciate good quality audio. Are there any that surprised you that have good quality audio. You don't have to namedrop in particular but have there been particular guess where you thought wow. They've got really good audio and I didn't expect that?

Yeah there definitely have been you know one person in particular would be Jack Canfield. I was really impressed that he jumped on he had a whole great mic audio set up and that was kind of expected of somebody in his age range because I've interviewed some other people right around there just you know who are sitting in front of their laptops kind of screaming at it and that's what I was expecting out of him but he was all setup ready to go.

And just going back to your gear there so you have a Mac Pro just to confirm is that one of the cylindrical black tube Macs?

Yes it is.

Wow. How do you find that? I bet that's got a lot of horsepower.

It's got a lot of horsepower and I actually upgraded the RAM myself to 64 gigabyte. So I went with the big boy with the RAM I upgraded that level so go a lot of processing power here.

Wow. So like you say when you're doing webinars there's no worries of your Mac or your computer equipment falling over. I'm interested about the Blue Yeti as well so that's that's a mic do you place that. Usually when you're doing a webinar off screen so people don't see it at all or it's just you think is less less imposing is it?

No it's usually offscreen but it's more than having it offscreen in mind to being on screen. But just because I'm French and I really like to kind of flail my hands around I'm talking and I'm on video and I'm doing webinars and I'm answering people's questions like I just kind of like to have a little space free whereas when I'm just doing audio only interviews and I know that I'm definitely okay with just being right up on my microphone and just really focusing on staying within like you know two to three inches of the pop filter for the Heil PR 40 just to get that real dynamics down there.

So my penultimate question I would like to ask you and this is for somebody who's listening now who's maybe you know they're aspiring to get into the audio industry wether that's to do podcast-production maybe their own podcast or maybe they want to get into audio production or they don't know yet they just want to do something in audio and then maybe they started using Adobe Audition just any software that will help them get used to editing audio. What would your advice be particularly to a young and aspiring audio person who would like to get into the industry what would you say to them.

Well two things. Number one learn from the best and I mean Mike I said this you off line so you know it's genuine so I'm going to say it online as well. And you know that's you. I mean you're the guy that's been doing this for an incredibly long time. I was you know with you on a personal question that I had. You very generously jumped on a call with me. And we went to your YouTube channel and I was just like holy crap like I forget like how much how many amazing video tutorials that you have here. It's at your fingertips. I mean if you're young and you're aspiring go to people who are currently where you want to be and Mike's the pinacle I mean he's exactly where I would want to be and be going towards if I was a young aspiring audio producer so go learn from those people who you admire. And then my second thing to add on to that is listen don't try to beat Mike at his own game. It's just like people that have come at me trying to do daily podcast interviews of entrepeneurs they're not going to make it happen but guess what. There are niches that need to be filled. You know Mike's you know just serving all of the people in the Adobe Audition world and he's doing all these great things. But what are the niches that you can fit maybe in other areas or you can really niche down and just be specializing in one specific thing like maybe you're just serving you know comedians that are looking to take their audio from their improv classes in stages and you know really get the best quality as possible. Of course it probably sounds like crap at the beginning but really get it down and give them something awesome they can use to pitch their services and their you know comedy to other comedy shows, comedy opportunities as well and like really high quality stuff like what's that niche that you're going to fill. There's not already being served at a very high level and if you can't find that where you're currently looking. That means you got to niche down even more so those will be the two things find people who are currently where you want to be like the Mikes of the world and learn from them and then number two find the void that's not being served the highest level and go fill that.

That's great. And thank you for that. I really appreciate that. And you're absolutely right as well. There are so many niches inside of audio that you can you can find your own space and be really comfortable.

I mean like how many times have you said if I only had the time to do X or Y or Z.

Oh I know.

I mean I do the same thing about podcasting. I mean if I only had the time but there's only so much time that you and I have in the course of a day. So of course we're going to go after what we see is the biggest opportunities are going to leave all the other opportunities there for other people to scoop up if they're smart enough.

Absolutely that's right. Yeah I'd say it's easy to get distracted some time and think you can do this project or that project but yeah you got to focus on I guess what the thing that makes your heart sing the thing that you really are supposed to be doing. I guess that's the best way I can describe it. But yeah brilliant. So that's fantastic. Really great episode and I really appreciate you coming on John. For anyone who's listening who would like to find you online. You have different podcasts you have books to check out as well. Fantastic blog. But is the one place people can go to to find out more and connect with you.

Yeah the one place would be E O fire dot com. That's where you can go to to see all the free resources that we have just like Mike has great resources free resources on his YouTube channel and other places for things like Adobe Audition and audio we have amazing free courses about podcasting and webinars and funnels and things along those lines so definitely go to E O fire dot com and if you're looking for a little daily refresh you can just search for The Daily Refresh in your favorite podcast app. And Entrepreneurs On Fire is of course my bread and butter we're launching or I should say episode 2004 will be published tomorrow.

Amazing. So the one place to go E O Fire dot com JLD. Really appreciate you coming on the show.

Twas a blast, Mike. Thanks.

That concludes this episode would you like an extra chance to win the awesome audio gear giveaway? Hit subscribe and review this podcast then email the details to podcast at MRC dot fm for an extra entry into the awesome audio gallery giveaway. Good luck.

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